From: "Bertram Ludaescher" <ludaesch AT ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 06:52:32 -0800
| Threading: | ↑ RE: [provenance-challenge] New provenance queries from Washington workshop from deelman AT isi.edu • This Message |
Hi Luc and all: If as you say the first phase of PC-2 indeed only requires publishing the actual data from PC-1, then it might be doable on the current schedule. But I'll have to check with the others first (I've heard some concerns from the re. the schedule already) If we just dump our internal RWS and COMAD provenance records on the wiki site, however, it might not be useful for others (no effort was spent on making the format interoperable, e.g. as XML -- so it might be hard for PC-2 folks to do sth with it). On the other hand, I must say it would be a nice *closure of PC-1* to require that the actual provenance data, even if internal, be made available. It would also be an added value to the submissions to the special issue :) cheers Bertram >>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:19:48 +0000 >>> Luc Moreau <L.Moreau AT ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: LM> LM> We've been working on the basis of what we agreed at the last workshop. LM> 1. We were aiming for a workshop in June. LM> 2. The first phase, consisting of exporting data from the first ↵ challenge, LM> - did not require much work (because we did the work at the first LM> challenge) LM> - is a prerequisite to do any thinking in terms of one-to-one ↵ integration LM> LM> I agree with Ewa that it would be nice to read the papers of the first LM> challenge. LM> They will become available at the same time as we propose the provenance LM> traces to be made available. It is all complementary. LM> LM> Luc LM> LM> LM> LM> Professor Luc Moreau LM> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 LM> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 LM> Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau AT ecs.soton.ac.uk LM> United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm LM> LM> LM> LM> Ewa Deelman wrote: >> Hi, >> I agree that it would be beneficial to digest the first challenge. I >> would for example like to have the time to read the papers that ↵ describe >> the various approaches. Also, with many proposal deadlines in the US ↵ in >> January and early February it would be very hard if not impossible to >> participate in this upcoming challenge. >> Thanks, >> -Ewa >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-provenance-challenge AT ipaw.info >> [mailto:owner-provenance-challenge AT ipaw.info] On Behalf Of Carole ↵ Goble >> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:30 AM >> To: provenance-challenge AT ipaw.info >> Cc: June Finch; daniele turi; Jun Zhao; rds AT cs.man.ac.uk; Duncan ↵ Hull; >> Antoon Goderis; Qiuwei Yu >> Subject: Re: [provenance-challenge] New provenance queries from >> Washington workshop >> >> Bertram >> >> This is a coincidence -- we also discussed this in the myGrid planning ↵ >> meeting today as we are concerned that we do not have the resources to ↵ >> set aside for the challenge and produce the Taverna 1.5 release, esp. ↵ as >> >> Jun, Duncan and Antoon are writing up their PhDs right now and Sky ↵ isn't >> >> up to speed as he has just started. >> >> So we are seriously considering withdrawing from the second challenge. >> >> Carole >> >> >>> Hi Simon and all: >>> >>> Re. the 2nd Prov. Challenge: I understand this is a ↵ "multi-phase" one, >>> with the first phase ending in January. >>> >>> I'm a bit concerned that many teams might still recover from the ↵ 1st >>> Challenge (talking here, at least in part for RWS and DAKS/COMAD). >>> >>> I'd like to suggest to have a "roll call" and see who ↵ actually plans >>> to participate in the second challenge: >>> (a) with the current schedule >>> (b) with a schedule starting a bit later. >>> >>> For example, I would have liked to give some feedback on the 2nd >>> challenge but I guess I'm a bit late (may still do so) >>> >>> Also, I think the teams for the 2nd challenge might benefit from >>> digesting fully what was learned from the 1st one. For example, it >>> might be good to read each other's papers (pre-prints) as the ↵ become >>> available in Jan/Feb.. >>> >>> thoughts? >>> >>> Overall, I think it's a great idea to follow up on the 1st ↵ challenge >>> and revisit the same workflow for the 2nd challenge (taking into >>> account what was learned). Provenance interop sounds like a good >>> topic. Maybe in addition to interop issue for the 1st challenge >>> workflow, there could be a 2nd workflow that has ↵ advanced/alternative >>> processing requirements .. >>> >>> Or maybe "meta-teams" or new teams could suggest ↵ specific "workflow >>> patterns" and the provenance issues related to it. Patterns ↵ could >>> include, e.g., data-dependent branching, pipelined execution, >>> nested workflows, etc. >>> >>> Bertram >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:52:32 +0000 >>>>>> "Simon Miles" <sm AT ecs.soton.ac.uk> ↵ wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> SM> SM> Hello again, SM> During the Washington provenance workshop, it was suggested that >>> >> we >> SM> develop new provenance queries to examine the edge cases and >>> >> issues >> SM> not touched by the first challenge. We discussed many such >>> >> queries, >> SM> related to long-term use of provenance, accidental corruption of >>> >> data >> SM> etc. These have now been written up and uploaded to the TWiki. >>> >> They >> SM> aren't intended to be anything to do with the second challenge, >>> >> but >> SM> are hopefully a useful resource in themselves. SM> SM> http://twiki.ipaw.info/bin/view/Challenge/ProvenanceQueries SM> SM> If you remember any others I've forgotten, please feel free to add >>> >> them! >> SM> SM> Thanks, SM> Simon SM> SM> P.S. If you want even more provenance-related questions: we >>> >> captured >> SM> many use cases in interviews with biologists, chemists, >>> >> physicists, >> SM> computer scientists and social scientists at the start of our >>> >> project >> SM> in 2004. Many of these are specified in a paper SM> (http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/13242, soon to be published in >>> >> Journal >> SM> of Grid Computing) and even more are available on the website SM> www.pasoa.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>